Marius and Sulla were both in some ways a great Roman heroes. However, each also contributed to bringing disaster on Rome.Please read Plutarch's Life of Marius, either in the abridged version here or the unabridged version here. Then read Plutarch's Life of Sulla, either in the abridged version here or the unabridged version here.
Cite an example that helps build the case that one of these men was a great hero for Rome *or* cite an example that shows how one of these men brought disaster to Rome.
"That was a most difficult war, and gave Marius opportunities not only to distinguish himself by deeds of bravery, but to win the love of the soldiers by sharing their labors, their privations, and their dangers. Before long both Africa and Rome were sounding his praises, and many of the soldiers went so far as to write home that the war would never be brought to a close until Caius Marius was chosen consul."
ReplyDeleteWhat builds a case for Marius being a great hero for Rome is when he was on the battle field. Marius did all that he could to make sure that Rome would win any war that it was in. The peopole of Rome loved him and wanted him to be consul during times of war because of his past they knew that Marius would not let them down.
" He was vicious in his youth and poverty, and no less so when he became old and rich. Indeed, he so squandered the public treasure when he got the chance that he was forced to let many cities that were allied to Rome buy their independence, in order that he might be enabled to replace the sums he had thrown away to gratify his own vile pleasures." This could tell us how Sulla managed to bring Rome to disaster. He had to sell off cities in order to keep Rome aflota financially.
ReplyDeleteMarius brought disaster to Rome through his actions to gain political power. He resorted to bribery to win political support and to get rid of his enemies. I believe that many of the laws from the twelve table dealt with punishment of public officials for bribery. Marius appeared to believe that he was above any law that hindered his ascent to power.
ReplyDelete" He did not care how low he stooped if only he could gain further favor with the people; that meant to him votes, for which he even resorted to briber."
Marius also used guile to get his political opponents beaten to death. An average Roman citizen would have had to have looked at the actions of Marius and come to the conclusion that bribery was good because if Marius is doing it, how can it be bad? He is an elected official after all.
It could also be said that because of Marius's actions in politics, the leaders of Rome spent too much time fighting with each other when they should have been dealing with threats from abroad.
I did find a bit of justice in the fact that Marius died on the 17th day of seventh consul. Scared of the advance of Sylla. Marius had used his success in war as a politicial adavantage and before his death he was afraid of war.
"Although it was clearly proved that Catulus had left more of the enemy dead upon the field than Marius had, by the larger number of shafts having his name inscribed on them, yet the honor of the day was given to Marius, because of his former victory, and the applause he got at home was so great that he was called the third founder of Rome."
ReplyDeleteThis quote shows that even though they've lost a battle, the people of Rome still welcome him with praise. He's lead the army into great battles and came out victorious which is better than what the previous leaders had done. The people accept him as a founder of Rome so they respect him and trust in him.
I think that Marius was a good Roman hero because of the management of how he kept the military of Rome together. For Marius he was a smart competive leader because he shown he would do any to please the patrician or plebians to be consul. My example that helps Marius to be one of Rome's greatest hero is how he won the likes fo the soilders and went on to defeat all the dangers to Rome during thoes bad times in the city as consul.
ReplyDeleteWhile Marius was a great hero for Rome I think that by letting him keep running for consul brought great danger to Rome. There is a reason that there are term limits and I don't blame the people for wanting to keep re-electing Marius. He was obviously a great leader but if he cared about the future of Rome he would not have kept being consul. It may have been good for Rome at the time but this could set a precedent for more Consuls being re-elected over and over again and Rome falling into the trap of only having one leader or lead eventually to the acceptance of a King or Emperor.
ReplyDelete“While marching, Marius trained his men to hardships by accustoming them to long, tiresome tramps, compelling every man to carry his own baggage and provide his victuals: so that afterwards "Marius's Mules" was a term applied to all hard workers who were patient and ready.” I think this shows that Marius is a hero to Rome. He was able to reform the military in a way which was able to help them win numerous battles. By eliminating the baggage trains the soldiers were able to be ready at anytime for battle. This cut travel time down as well.
ReplyDelete"Sylla did was to declare himself dictator, though there had been no such office in Rome for a hundred and twenty years. It gave him power of life and death, of seizing property, of forming colonies, of building or destroying cities, of giving or taking away kingdoms. In short, it gave him power unlimited, and he exercised it in a most insolent, despotic manner."
ReplyDeleteThis example shows the reason why Sylla brought disaster to rome but he killed the senate and made rome a dictorship with his own power and then when he was finish he let the roman government become counslor again, and though all his power people never tried to kill him even though he did not have guards with me.
On the expedition he carefully disciplined and trained his army whilst they were on their way, giving them practice in long marches, and running of every sort, and compelling every man to carry his own baggage and prepare his own victuals; insomuch that thenceforward laborious soldiers, who did their work silently without grumbling, had the name of "Marius's mules."
ReplyDeleteI feel like this is a good example of Marius playing the role of a hero for the Roman society. I feel that his effort towards improving his soldiers would serve as a great improvement for the Roman people.
Mauris strikes me as as a present day polititian in that he will do anything to get the vote of the people. He promised anything and everything to get the vote which he did. But the power of elected office is cursed because he was more concerned than actually serving in a functional capacity as consul and it in turn retarded Rome's growth for years and most likely leading to more pproblems down the road.
ReplyDelete"Marius showed much fortitude in enduring pain when undergoing a surgical operation. Both his legs were covered with tumors, and he determined to have them cut out; so, refusing to be bound, he held out one limb and submitted to the painful operation without flinching; but when the surgeon was about to begin on the other he refused, saying, "I see the cure is not worth the pain."
ReplyDeleteI believe that this quote makes Marius out to be a hero for Rome. Although victory was not to be had on the battle field it still proves that Marius is pretty bad ass. Seriously, he had tumors cut off his legs. That is a story that people would LOVE to talk about.
"When Sylla arrived, he ordered the houses to be set on fire, and, taking a flaming torch in his hand, gave the example. In doing this he had no thought for friends or relations, but was impelled by fury and the desire for vengeance to ruin his enemies, and cared not that the innocent and the guilty alike suffered."
ReplyDeleteThis passage really shows how Sylla brought disaster to Rome. He really let his emotions play with his head. When a man can put aside all feelings and relationships just to exact revenge has little for moral boundaries. As this action was taking place it should have thrown up a big red flag. If he could preform atrocities such as this and not feel some form of regret as it was happening than he could very easily do other harmful things to the people on a regular basis.
I think that the end of the story of Marius shows how Marius brought disaster to Rome. Early in his career he was considered a Roman hero due to his many military victories. But eventually the power went to his head and he made many enemies. These enemies eventually succeeded in casting him out of Rome and putting him on the run. However, years later another threat came to Rome and Marius was called upon once again. The Roman people expected him to be the hero he had been in years past, but this time Marius came in as a tyrant. He would kill anyone who disagreed with what he said and put Rome into a state of fear. I fell that this is very similar to how Paris felt during the Reign of Terror while Robespierre was killing many people. Marius may have been an excellent military leader and won many battles, but what I feel that what he brought on Rome near the end of his life overshadows what he did before.
ReplyDeleteJohn Rawerts
"Being naturally valiant and warlike, and more acquainted also with the discipline of the camp than of the city, he could not moderate his passion when in authority."
ReplyDeleteI think this shows the disaster. While he could win battles and do well militarily, that did not mean that he should have been Counsel so many times. By changing the law and allowing him to be Counsel it changed the way the government was. This line talks about how he knew the camp more than the city. This showed that if the Romans wanted to have a good military leader maybe they should have a separate figure that is not counsel with less power. This just caused disaster later down the road.